From areilly at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jan 25 09:49:23 2019
From: areilly at bigpond.net.au (Andrew Reilly)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:49:23 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
Message-ID: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>

Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me.  Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server.  Have done since maybe '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits have changed over time.  Today's version has a new-ish version-1 Ryzen motherboard with 32G RAM (which I've managed to stop spontaneously freezing a couple of times a week, over the break, by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS).  That is host to an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T Hitachi drives in RaidZ form for user data.  There are two quota-limited ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's two macOS systems.  Main network file service to the macs is over the latest Samba, with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks enabled, and that doesn't seem to work too badly.  Not totally fluid (SMB restrictions on file name characters bight every so often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but tolerable, and seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these days.  TimeMachine still runs over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too.  That box is connected to a switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a Telstra Netcomm cable-modem-cum-wifi-router.  Hanging off the 5GHz Wifi band at the moment is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement for my wife's dying old MacBook.  It's on it's first boot, and is attempting to restore from the last backup of the MacBook, some 280G.  It claims that it will take another 36 hours, at the current average pace of 2MB/s.  That seems low to me, by perhaps as much as a factor of 60.  I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed to manage 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the new laptop is about eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of sight.  Doesn't get much better than that.  Not that there's much I can do about it now, but does anyone have any thoughts about why the restore performance should be so awful?  Could it be bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed?  Something pessimal about NetAtalk over WiFi?  A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem?  (Heaven knows the user-interface and the firewall are rubbish.  The device drops all IPSec packets silently on the ground.)

Cheers,

Andrew Reilly
E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
M: +61-409-824-272





From harry at woodward-clarke.com  Fri Jan 25 10:18:46 2019
From: harry at woodward-clarke.com (Harry Woodward-Clarke)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:18:46 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>

yeah - I would be suspicious of the Telstra device. I should have thought
at least 20MB/s, and up to about 30MB/s without too much effort.

Of course, to get the super-duper speeds, both the Tx and Rx need to use
multiple antennas (MIMO) - hence why some of the fancy-schmancy Access
Points have all those antennas pointing every which way :)

The may be some tweaks you can do in the T-device (channel width, Tx power)
but I suspect you are stuck unless you put a "real" Wireless Access Point
in the mix.

.h

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:49, Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au> wrote:

> Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me.  Any suggestions
> gratefully accepted.
>
> I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server.  Have done since maybe
> '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits have changed over
> time.  Today's version has a new-ish version-1 Ryzen motherboard with 32G
> RAM (which I've managed to stop spontaneously freezing a couple of times a
> week, over the break, by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS).
> That is host to an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T
> Hitachi drives in RaidZ form for user data.  There are two quota-limited
> ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's two macOS
> systems.  Main network file service to the macs is over the latest Samba,
> with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks enabled, and that doesn't seem
> to work too badly.  Not totally fluid (SMB restrictions on file name
> characters bight every so often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but
> tolerable, and seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these
> days.  TimeMachine still run!
>  s over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too.  That box is connected to a
> switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a Telstra Netcomm
> cable-modem-cum-wifi-router.  Hanging off the 5GHz Wifi band at the moment
> is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement for my wife's dying old MacBook.
> It's on it's first boot, and is attempting to restore from the last backup
> of the MacBook, some 280G.  It claims that it will take another 36 hours,
> at the current average pace of 2MB/s.  That seems low to me, by perhaps as
> much as a factor of 60.  I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed to manage
> 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the new laptop is about
> eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of sight.  Doesn't get much better
> than that.  Not that there's much I can do about it now, but does anyone
> have any thoughts about why the restore performance should be so awful?
> Could it be bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed?  Something
> pessimal about NetAtalk over WiF!
>  i?  A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem?  (Heaven knows the
> user-interface and the firewall are rubbish.  The device drops all IPSec
> packets silently on the ground.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew Reilly
> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
> M: +61-409-824-272
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>


-- 

Harry Woodward-Clarke
imago Dei, in quolibet homine, inveniatur
Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly with Your God - Micah 6v8
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From dean at fragfest.com.au  Fri Jan 25 10:31:47 2019
From: dean at fragfest.com.au (Dean Hamstead)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:31:47 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>

Friends dont let friends run the ISP modem :)

Also, realistically WiFi will run at about 50% of its theoretical max speed.

Telstra's modems are notoriously terrible (as are most big name ISP's 
who customize the firmware), but on the plus side Telstra is now perhaps 
the only ISP that does IPv6 on NBN and ADSL products (Internode doesnt 
do it on products they are selling through AAPT wholesale, like NBN-HFC 
and NBN-FTTC)

If you don't use a phone service which Telstra insists on providing via 
their crappy modem - you can just replace it with something like a cheap 
TP-Link. Which you can likely reload with OpenWRT or similar. If youre 
using fttn then youll need to get a vdsl modem (even just a 1 port dm200 
from netgear, in bridge mode).

Or you could run a pfsense/opnsense appliance, or roll your own via and 
bsd you like. For

I've not yet had the chance to get Telstra IPv6 running on a non-Telstra 
device though. Assuming they are just using DHCPv6 (they just use DHCP 
for ipv4) then it should just be a matter of providing settings they 
will accept.


Dean

On 25/1/19 10:18 am, Harry Woodward-Clarke wrote:
> yeah - I would be suspicious of the Telstra device. I should have 
> thought at least 20MB/s, and up to about 30MB/s without too much effort.
>
> Of course, to get the super-duper speeds, both the Tx and Rx need to 
> use multiple antennas (MIMO) - hence why some of the fancy-schmancy 
> Access Points have all those antennas pointing every which way :)
>
> The may be some tweaks you can do in the T-device (channel width, Tx 
> power) but I suspect you are stuck unless you put a "real" Wireless 
> Access Point in the mix.
>
> .h
>
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:49, Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au 
> <mailto:areilly at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>
>     Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me.? Any
>     suggestions gratefully accepted.
>
>     I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server.? Have done since
>     maybe '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits
>     have changed over time.? Today's version has a new-ish version-1
>     Ryzen motherboard with 32G RAM (which I've managed to stop
>     spontaneously freezing a couple of times a week, over the break,
>     by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS).? That is host to
>     an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T Hitachi
>     drives in RaidZ form for user data.? There are two quota-limited
>     ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's
>     two macOS systems.? Main network file service to the macs is over
>     the latest Samba, with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks
>     enabled, and that doesn't seem to work too badly.? Not totally
>     fluid (SMB restrictions on file name characters bight every so
>     often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but tolerable, and
>     seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these days.?
>     TimeMachine still run!
>     ?s over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too.? That box is connected
>     to a switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a
>     Telstra Netcomm cable-modem-cum-wifi-router. Hanging off the 5GHz
>     Wifi band at the moment is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement
>     for my wife's dying old MacBook. It's on it's first boot, and is
>     attempting to restore from the last backup of the MacBook, some
>     280G.? It claims that it will take another 36 hours, at the
>     current average pace of 2MB/s. That seems low to me, by perhaps as
>     much as a factor of 60. I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed to
>     manage 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the new
>     laptop is about eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of
>     sight.? Doesn't get much better than that.? Not that there's much
>     I can do about it now, but does anyone have any thoughts about why
>     the restore performance should be so awful?? Could it be
>     bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed?? Something
>     pessimal about NetAtalk over WiF!
>     ?i?? A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem?? (Heaven knows
>     the user-interface and the firewall are rubbish.? The device drops
>     all IPSec packets silently on the ground.)
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Andrew Reilly
>     E: areilly at bigpond.net.au <mailto:areilly at bigpond.net.au>
>     M: +61-409-824-272
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     BUGS mailing list
>     BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org <mailto:BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org>
>     https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Harry Woodward-Clarke
> imago Dei, in quolibet homine, inveniatur
> Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly with Your God - Micah 6v8
>
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
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From edwin at mavetju.org  Fri Jan 25 10:43:40 2019
From: edwin at mavetju.org (Edwin Groothuis)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:43:40 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
Message-ID: <9610D6BB-1DD0-4FF7-939C-D876BF3ADCD5@mavetju.org>

Internode does support IPv6 over NBN FTTC these days.

Edwin

Sent from a phone.


> On 25 Jan 2019, at 10:31, Dean Hamstead <dean at fragfest.com.au> wrote:
> 
> Friends dont let friends run the ISP modem :)
> Also, realistically WiFi will run at about 50% of its theoretical max speed.
> 
> Telstra's modems are notoriously terrible (as are most big name ISP's who customize the firmware), but on the plus side Telstra is now perhaps the only ISP that does IPv6 on NBN and ADSL products (Internode doesnt do it on products they are selling through AAPT wholesale, like NBN-HFC and NBN-FTTC)
> 
> If you don't use a phone service which Telstra insists on providing via their crappy modem - you can just replace it with something like a cheap TP-Link. Which you can likely reload with       OpenWRT or similar. If youre using fttn then youll need to get a vdsl modem (even just a 1 port dm200 from netgear, in bridge mode).
> 
> Or you could run a pfsense/opnsense appliance, or roll your own via and bsd you like. For 
> I've not yet had the chance to get Telstra IPv6 running on a non-Telstra device though. Assuming they are just using DHCPv6 (they just use DHCP for ipv4) then it should just be a matter of providing settings they will accept.
> 
> 
> Dean
>> On 25/1/19 10:18 am, Harry Woodward-Clarke wrote:
>> yeah - I would be suspicious of the Telstra device. I should have thought at least 20MB/s, and up to about 30MB/s without too much effort.
>> 
>> Of course, to get the super-duper speeds, both the Tx and Rx need to use           multiple antennas (MIMO) - hence why some of the fancy-schmancy Access Points have all those antennas pointing every which way :)
>> 
>> The may be some tweaks you can do in the T-device (channel width, Tx power) but I suspect you are stuck unless you put a "real" Wireless Access Point in the mix.
>> 
>> .h
>> 
>>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:49, Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me.  Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
>>> 
>>> I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server.  Have done since maybe '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits have changed over time.  Today's version has a new-ish version-1 Ryzen motherboard with 32G RAM (which I've managed to stop spontaneously freezing a couple of times a week, over the break, by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS).  That is host to an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T Hitachi drives in RaidZ form for user data.  There are two quota-limited ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's two macOS systems.  Main network file service to the macs is over the latest Samba, with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks enabled, and that doesn't seem to work too badly.  Not totally fluid (SMB           restrictions on file name characters bight every so often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but tolerable, and seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these days.  TimeMachine still run!
>>>  s over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too.  That box is connected to a switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a Telstra Netcomm cable-modem-cum-wifi-router.  Hanging off the 5GHz Wifi band at the moment is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement for my wife's dying old MacBook.            It's on it's first boot, and is attempting to restore from the last backup of the MacBook, some 280G.  It claims that it will take another 36 hours, at the current average pace of 2MB/s.  That seems low to me, by perhaps as much as a factor of 60.  I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed to manage 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the new laptop is about eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of sight.  Doesn't get much better than that.  Not that there's much I can do about it now, but does anyone have any thoughts about why the restore performance should be so awful?  Could it be bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed?  Something pessimal about NetAtalk over WiF!
>>>  i?  A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem?  (Heaven knows the user-interface and the firewall are rubbish.  The device drops all IPSec packets silently on the ground.)
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Andrew Reilly
>>> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
>>> M: +61-409-824-272
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BUGS mailing list
>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Harry Woodward-Clarke
>> imago Dei, in quolibet homine, inveniatur
>> Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly with Your God - Micah 6v8
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BUGS mailing list
>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
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From areilly at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jan 25 10:59:17 2019
From: areilly at bigpond.net.au (Andrew Reilly)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:59:17 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
Message-ID: <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>

Thanks for the comments.  Just to clarify, I'm not yet on the NBN.  If they squeak my installation in before the 2020 line-in-the-sand I guess I'll be happy.  I'm in the Telstra/Foxtel HFC footprint, and so will probably be the last connected.  I'll lose a bit of download speed (Bigpond HFC gets up to 120Mb/s on a good day) but I'm really looking forward to the up-tick in upload speed and reduced latency.  We'll see.  I'm afraid that the fact that NBN has been "imminent" for the last five years or so has rather held up enthusiasm for experimenting with other configurations.  I came close to running the modem in bridge mode and using a third-party WiFi router when I discovered the IPSec issue, but haven't, yet.  So IPv6 is something else to look forward to?  IPv4-only on Bigpond cable.

An experiment I could reasonably try, if it's still going this evening, would be getting a USB-C ethernet adaptor for the laptop and plugging it into the switch.

As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my original message by the BUGS mail forwarder!  I'm sorry for whatever it was that I did to upset it.  Looks as though it re-assembled Apple's soft-wrap text into long lines, and then broke those at non-word boundaries with explanation marks.  I've not seen that happen before.

Cheers,

Andrew Reilly
E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
M: +61-409-824-272



> On 25 Jan 2019, at 10:31, Dean Hamstead <dean at fragfest.com.au> wrote:
> 
> Friends dont let friends run the ISP modem :)
> 
> Also, realistically WiFi will run at about 50% of its theoretical max speed.
> 
> Telstra's modems are notoriously terrible (as are most big name ISP's who customize the firmware), but on the plus side Telstra is now perhaps the only ISP that does IPv6 on NBN and ADSL products (Internode doesnt do it on products they are selling through AAPT wholesale, like NBN-HFC and NBN-FTTC)
> 
> If you don't use a phone service which Telstra insists on providing via their crappy modem - you can just replace it with something like a cheap TP-Link. Which you can likely reload with OpenWRT or similar. If youre using fttn then youll need to get a vdsl modem (even just a 1 port dm200 from netgear, in bridge mode).
> 
> Or you could run a pfsense/opnsense appliance, or roll your own via and bsd you like. For 
> 
> I've not yet had the chance to get Telstra IPv6 running on a non-Telstra device though. Assuming they are just using DHCPv6 (they just use DHCP for ipv4) then it should just be a matter of providing settings they will accept.
> 
> 
> 
> Dean
> 
> On 25/1/19 10:18 am, Harry Woodward-Clarke wrote:
>> yeah - I would be suspicious of the Telstra device. I should have thought at least 20MB/s, and up to about 30MB/s without too much effort.
>> 
>> Of course, to get the super-duper speeds, both the Tx and Rx need to use multiple antennas (MIMO) - hence why some of the fancy-schmancy Access Points have all those antennas pointing every which way :)
>> 
>> The may be some tweaks you can do in the T-device (channel width, Tx power) but I suspect you are stuck unless you put a "real" Wireless Access Point in the mix.
>> 
>> .h
>> 
>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:49, Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me.  Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
>> 
>> I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server.  Have done since maybe '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits have changed over time.  Today's version has a new-ish version-1 Ryzen motherboard with 32G RAM (which I've managed to stop spontaneously freezing a couple of times a week, over the break, by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS).  That is host to an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T Hitachi drives in RaidZ form for user data.  There are two quota-limited ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's two macOS systems.  Main network file service to the macs is over the latest Samba, with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks enabled, and that doesn't seem to work too badly.  Not totally fluid (SMB restrictions on file name characters bight every so often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but tolerable, and seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these days.  TimeMachine still run!
>>  s over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too.  That box is connected to a switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a Telstra Netcomm cable-modem-cum-wifi-router.  Hanging off the 5GHz Wifi band at the moment is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement for my wife's dying old MacBook.  It's on it's first boot, and is attempting to restore from the last backup of the MacBook, some 280G.  It claims that it will take another 36 hours, at the current average pace of 2MB/s.  That seems low to me, by perhaps as much as a factor of 60.  I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed to manage 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the new laptop is about eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of sight.  Doesn't get much better than that.  Not that there's much I can do about it now, but does anyone have any thoughts about why the restore performance should be so awful?  Could it be bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed?  Something pessimal about NetAtalk over WiF!
>>  i?  A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem?  (Heaven knows the user-interface and the firewall are rubbish.  The device drops all IPSec packets silently on the ground.)
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Andrew Reilly
>> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
>> M: +61-409-824-272
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BUGS mailing list
>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Harry Woodward-Clarke
>> imago Dei, in quolibet homine, inveniatur
>> Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly with Your God - Micah 6v8
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BUGS mailing list
>> 
>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs



From dean at fragfest.com.au  Fri Jan 25 11:47:25 2019
From: dean at fragfest.com.au (Dean Hamstead)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:47:25 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <93b2aff8-09fb-4f5f-78d3-19f330b1694a@fragfest.com.au>

ok youre on Telstra cable. Thats good actually.

I assume that youre using the all in one cable modem + wifi ? Is it a 
netgear?


Dean

On 25/1/19 10:59 am, Andrew Reilly wrote:
> Thanks for the comments.  Just to clarify, I'm not yet on the NBN.  If they squeak my installation in before the 2020 line-in-the-sand I guess I'll be happy.  I'm in the Telstra/Foxtel HFC footprint, and so will probably be the last connected.  I'll lose a bit of download speed (Bigpond HFC gets up to 120Mb/s on a good day) but I'm really looking forward to the up-tick in upload speed and reduced latency.  We'll see.  I'm afraid that the fact that NBN has been "imminent" for the last five years or so has rather held up enthusiasm for experimenting with other configurations.  I came close to running the modem in bridge mode and using a third-party WiFi router when I discovered the IPSec issue, but haven't, yet.  So IPv6 is something else to look forward to?  IPv4-only on Bigpond cable.
>
> An experiment I could reasonably try, if it's still going this evening, would be getting a USB-C ethernet adaptor for the laptop and plugging it into the switch.
>
> As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my original message by the BUGS mail forwarder!  I'm sorry for whatever it was that I did to upset it.  Looks as though it re-assembled Apple's soft-wrap text into long lines, and then broke those at non-word boundaries with explanation marks.  I've not seen that happen before.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew Reilly
> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
> M: +61-409-824-272
>
>
>
>> On 25 Jan 2019, at 10:31, Dean Hamstead <dean at fragfest.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Friends dont let friends run the ISP modem :)
>>
>> Also, realistically WiFi will run at about 50% of its theoretical max speed.
>>
>> Telstra's modems are notoriously terrible (as are most big name ISP's who customize the firmware), but on the plus side Telstra is now perhaps the only ISP that does IPv6 on NBN and ADSL products (Internode doesnt do it on products they are selling through AAPT wholesale, like NBN-HFC and NBN-FTTC)
>>
>> If you don't use a phone service which Telstra insists on providing via their crappy modem - you can just replace it with something like a cheap TP-Link. Which you can likely reload with OpenWRT or similar. If youre using fttn then youll need to get a vdsl modem (even just a 1 port dm200 from netgear, in bridge mode).
>>
>> Or you could run a pfsense/opnsense appliance, or roll your own via and bsd you like. For
>>
>> I've not yet had the chance to get Telstra IPv6 running on a non-Telstra device though. Assuming they are just using DHCPv6 (they just use DHCP for ipv4) then it should just be a matter of providing settings they will accept.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> On 25/1/19 10:18 am, Harry Woodward-Clarke wrote:
>>> yeah - I would be suspicious of the Telstra device. I should have thought at least 20MB/s, and up to about 30MB/s without too much effort.
>>>
>>> Of course, to get the super-duper speeds, both the Tx and Rx need to use multiple antennas (MIMO) - hence why some of the fancy-schmancy Access Points have all those antennas pointing every which way :)
>>>
>>> The may be some tweaks you can do in the T-device (channel width, Tx power) but I suspect you are stuck unless you put a "real" Wireless Access Point in the mix.
>>>
>>> .h
>>>
>>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:49, Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me.  Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
>>>
>>> I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server.  Have done since maybe '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits have changed over time.  Today's version has a new-ish version-1 Ryzen motherboard with 32G RAM (which I've managed to stop spontaneously freezing a couple of times a week, over the break, by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS).  That is host to an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T Hitachi drives in RaidZ form for user data.  There are two quota-limited ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's two macOS systems.  Main network file service to the macs is over the latest Samba, with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks enabled, and that doesn't seem to work too badly.  Not totally fluid (SMB restrictions on file name characters bight every so often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but tolerable, and seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these days.  TimeMachine still !
>   run!
>>>   s over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too.  That box is connected to a switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a Telstra Netcomm cable-modem-cum-wifi-router.  Hanging off the 5GHz Wifi band at the moment is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement for my wife's dying old MacBook.  It's on it's first boot, and is attempting to restore from the last backup of the MacBook, some 280G.  It claims that it will take another 36 hours, at the current average pace of 2MB/s.  That seems low to me, by perhaps as much as a factor of 60.  I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed to manage 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the new laptop is about eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of sight.  Doesn't get much better than that.  Not that there's much I can do about it now, but does anyone have any thoughts about why the restore performance should be so awful?  Could it be bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed?  Something pessimal about NetAtalk over !
>   WiF!
>>>   i?  A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem?  (Heaven knows the user-interface and the firewall are rubbish.  The device drops all IPSec packets silently on the ground.)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Andrew Reilly
>>> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
>>> M: +61-409-824-272
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BUGS mailing list
>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Harry Woodward-Clarke
>>> imago Dei, in quolibet homine, inveniatur
>>> Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly with Your God - Micah 6v8
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BUGS mailing list
>>>
>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>> _______________________________________________
>> BUGS mailing list
>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs



From andyf at andyit.com.au  Fri Jan 25 11:54:27 2019
From: andyf at andyit.com.au (Andy Farkas)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:54:27 +1000
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>

On 25/01/2019 09:59, Andrew Reilly wrote:
> As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my original message by the BUGS mail forwarder!

Why is HTML email allowed?  Poiter, please fix!!!

-andyf


From areilly at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jan 25 12:06:02 2019
From: areilly at bigpond.net.au (Andrew Reilly)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:06:02 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <93b2aff8-09fb-4f5f-78d3-19f330b1694a@fragfest.com.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
 <93b2aff8-09fb-4f5f-78d3-19f330b1694a@fragfest.com.au>
Message-ID: <820FF8A1-4ABF-4B93-A2A9-9D9F6E5FACF7@bigpond.net.au>

Hi Dean,

Yes, it's a Netgear.  Telstra call it something like "Gateway Max".  Looks a lot like this one: 
https://www.netgear.com/service-providers/products/cable/gateways/C6300BD-Telstra.aspx <https://www.netgear.com/service-providers/products/cable/gateways/C6300BD-Telstra.aspx> 

Performance usually seems pretty decent.  Certainly for web browsing and what-not I've not experienced much in the way of issues.

"top" on the file server says that afpd is using about 1% of CPU, so that probably isn't the bottleneck...
systat -vmstat says that the ZFS drives are doing about 70tps, averaging about 2-3 MB/s, and are 25-30% busy.  So unless they're doing lots of pointless seeking, I don't think they're the bottleneck either.  I'm inclined to blame the WiFi protocols, perhaps exacerbated by afpd.

Cheers,

Andrew Reilly
E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
M: +61-409-824-272



> On 25 Jan 2019, at 11:47, Dean Hamstead <dean at fragfest.com.au> wrote:
> 
> ok youre on Telstra cable. Thats good actually.
> 
> I assume that youre using the all in one cable modem + wifi ? Is it a netgear?
> 
> 
> Dean
> 
> On 25/1/19 10:59 am, Andrew Reilly wrote:
>> Thanks for the comments.  Just to clarify, I'm not yet on the NBN.  If they squeak my installation in before the 2020 line-in-the-sand I guess I'll be happy.  I'm in the Telstra/Foxtel HFC footprint, and so will probably be the last connected.  I'll lose a bit of download speed (Bigpond HFC gets up to 120Mb/s on a good day) but I'm really looking forward to the up-tick in upload speed and reduced latency.  We'll see.  I'm afraid that the fact that NBN has been "imminent" for the last five years or so has rather held up enthusiasm for experimenting with other configurations.  I came close to running the modem in bridge mode and using a third-party WiFi router when I discovered the IPSec issue, but haven't, yet.  So IPv6 is something else to look forward to?  IPv4-only on Bigpond cable.
>> 
>> An experiment I could reasonably try, if it's still going this evening, would be getting a USB-C ethernet adaptor for the laptop and plugging it into the switch.
>> 
>> As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my original message by the BUGS mail forwarder!  I'm sorry for whatever it was that I did to upset it.  Looks as though it re-assembled Apple's soft-wrap text into long lines, and then broke those at non-word boundaries with explanation marks.  I've not seen that happen before.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Andrew Reilly
>> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
>> M: +61-409-824-272
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jan 2019, at 10:31, Dean Hamstead <dean at fragfest.com.au> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Friends dont let friends run the ISP modem :)
>>> 
>>> Also, realistically WiFi will run at about 50% of its theoretical max speed.
>>> 
>>> Telstra's modems are notoriously terrible (as are most big name ISP's who customize the firmware), but on the plus side Telstra is now perhaps the only ISP that does IPv6 on NBN and ADSL products (Internode doesnt do it on products they are selling through AAPT wholesale, like NBN-HFC and NBN-FTTC)
>>> 
>>> If you don't use a phone service which Telstra insists on providing via their crappy modem - you can just replace it with something like a cheap TP-Link. Which you can likely reload with OpenWRT or similar. If youre using fttn then youll need to get a vdsl modem (even just a 1 port dm200 from netgear, in bridge mode).
>>> 
>>> Or you could run a pfsense/opnsense appliance, or roll your own via and bsd you like. For
>>> 
>>> I've not yet had the chance to get Telstra IPv6 running on a non-Telstra device though. Assuming they are just using DHCPv6 (they just use DHCP for ipv4) then it should just be a matter of providing settings they will accept.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dean
>>> 
>>> On 25/1/19 10:18 am, Harry Woodward-Clarke wrote:
>>>> yeah - I would be suspicious of the Telstra device. I should have thought at least 20MB/s, and up to about 30MB/s without too much effort.
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, to get the super-duper speeds, both the Tx and Rx need to use multiple antennas (MIMO) - hence why some of the fancy-schmancy Access Points have all those antennas pointing every which way :)
>>>> 
>>>> The may be some tweaks you can do in the T-device (channel width, Tx power) but I suspect you are stuck unless you put a "real" Wireless Access Point in the mix.
>>>> 
>>>> .h
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:49, Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>> Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me.  Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
>>>> 
>>>> I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server.  Have done since maybe '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits have changed over time.  Today's version has a new-ish version-1 Ryzen motherboard with 32G RAM (which I've managed to stop spontaneously freezing a couple of times a week, over the break, by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS).  That is host to an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T Hitachi drives in RaidZ form for user data.  There are two quota-limited ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's two macOS systems.  Main network file service to the macs is over the latest Samba, with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks enabled, and that doesn't seem to work too badly.  Not totally fluid (SMB restrictions on file name characters bight every so often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but tolerable, and seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these days.  TimeMachine still!
> !
>>  run!
>>>>  s over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too.  That box is connected to a switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a Telstra Netcomm cable-modem-cum-wifi-router.  Hanging off the 5GHz Wifi band at the moment is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement for my wife's dying old MacBook.  It's on it's first boot, and is attempting to restore from the last backup of the MacBook, some 280G.  It claims that it will take another 36 hours, at the current average pace of 2MB/s.  That seems low to me, by perhaps as much as a factor of 60.  I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed to manage 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the new laptop is about eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of sight.  Doesn't get much better than that.  Not that there's much I can do about it now, but does anyone have any thoughts about why the restore performance should be so awful?  Could it be bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed?  Something pessimal about NetAtalk ove!
> r !
>>  WiF!
>>>>  i?  A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem?  (Heaven knows the user-interface and the firewall are rubbish.  The device drops all IPSec packets silently on the ground.)
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> Andrew Reilly
>>>> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
>>>> M: +61-409-824-272
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BUGS mailing list
>>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> 
>>>> Harry Woodward-Clarke
>>>> imago Dei, in quolibet homine, inveniatur
>>>> Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly with Your God - Micah 6v8
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BUGS mailing list
>>>> 
>>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BUGS mailing list
>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> BUGS mailing list
>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs

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From edwin at mavetju.org  Fri Jan 25 12:07:25 2019
From: edwin at mavetju.org (Edwin Groothuis)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:07:25 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
 <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>
Message-ID: <E5FEA963-EA27-400F-B96A-63CC741BF9A4@mavetju.org>

It?s 2019, stay with the show. 

Sent from a phone.


> On 25 Jan 2019, at 11:54, Andy Farkas <andyf at andyit.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> On 25/01/2019 09:59, Andrew Reilly wrote:
>> As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my original message by the BUGS mail forwarder!
> 
> Why is HTML email allowed?  Poiter, please fix!!!
> 
> -andyf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs


From areilly at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jan 25 12:10:02 2019
From: areilly at bigpond.net.au (Andrew Reilly)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 12:10:02 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
 <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>
Message-ID: <9B0B2C16-7B33-4571-A42E-7549EE2721D1@bigpond.net.au>

The original wasn't HTML.  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The long lines came from BUGS.

Cheers,

Andrew Reilly
E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
M: +61-409-824-272



> On 25 Jan 2019, at 11:54, Andy Farkas <andyf at andyit.com.au> wrote:
> 
> On 25/01/2019 09:59, Andrew Reilly wrote:
>> As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my original message by the BUGS mail forwarder!
> 
> Why is HTML email allowed?  Poiter, please fix!!!
> 
> -andyf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs



From sam at illumynite.com  Fri Jan 25 12:12:17 2019
From: sam at illumynite.com (Sam Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:12:17 +1000
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <9B0B2C16-7B33-4571-A42E-7549EE2721D1@bigpond.net.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
 <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>
 <9B0B2C16-7B33-4571-A42E-7549EE2721D1@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <CAAQTgZZgEd1Crd+iKD5ZwjKec3P9TVQrN1DJFsNxGpG0s8baxw@mail.gmail.com>

I move for HTML only list messages.  Let's do this

On Fri., 25 Jan. 2019, 11:10 am Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au wrote:

> The original wasn't HTML.  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> The long lines came from BUGS.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew Reilly
> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au
> M: +61-409-824-272
>
>
>
> > On 25 Jan 2019, at 11:54, Andy Farkas <andyf at andyit.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > On 25/01/2019 09:59, Andrew Reilly wrote:
> >> As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my original
> message by the BUGS mail forwarder!
> >
> > Why is HTML email allowed?  Poiter, please fix!!!
> >
> > -andyf
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BUGS mailing list
> > BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> > https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>
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From andyf at andyit.com.au  Fri Jan 25 12:30:04 2019
From: andyf at andyit.com.au (Andy Farkas)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:30:04 +1000
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <CAAQTgZZgEd1Crd+iKD5ZwjKec3P9TVQrN1DJFsNxGpG0s8baxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
 <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>
 <9B0B2C16-7B33-4571-A42E-7549EE2721D1@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAAQTgZZgEd1Crd+iKD5ZwjKec3P9TVQrN1DJFsNxGpG0s8baxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5C4A669C.70506@andyit.com.au>

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From sam at illumynite.com  Fri Jan 25 12:37:08 2019
From: sam at illumynite.com (Sam Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:37:08 +1000
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <5C4A669C.70506@andyit.com.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
 <5C4A5E43.5040407@andyit.com.au>
 <9B0B2C16-7B33-4571-A42E-7549EE2721D1@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAAQTgZZgEd1Crd+iKD5ZwjKec3P9TVQrN1DJFsNxGpG0s8baxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5C4A669C.70506@andyit.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAAQTgZa4jA45q61s7jKbfrxNw5Cbs_Xc2=gM+eYSTGZkQGU9BQ@mail.gmail.com>

???????

On Fri., 25 Jan. 2019, 11:31 am Andy Farkas <andyf at andyit.com.au wrote:

> Ok.
>
> Lets also top-post!!!
>
>
> On 25/01/2019 11:12, Sam Lawrance wrote:
>
> I move for HTML only list messages.  Let's do this
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BUGS mailing list
> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>
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From andyf at andyit.com.au  Fri Jan 25 12:40:51 2019
From: andyf at andyit.com.au (Andy Farkas)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 11:40:51 +1000
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <CAAQTgZa4jA45q61s7jKbfrxNw5Cbs_Xc2=gM+eYSTGZkQGU9BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
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From dean at fragfest.com.au  Fri Jan 25 14:33:33 2019
From: dean at fragfest.com.au (Dean Hamstead)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 14:33:33 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <820FF8A1-4ABF-4B93-A2A9-9D9F6E5FACF7@bigpond.net.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
 <93b2aff8-09fb-4f5f-78d3-19f330b1694a@fragfest.com.au>
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Message-ID: <473547ff-3954-527f-714a-77b83a44c04e@fragfest.com.au>

My experience with these devices is that their wifi performance i woeful.

- they are cheap

- by design 1, as you cant 'hack' what you cant get a signal from.

- by design 2, so that channel overlap is less of a problem in MDU's etc 
(flats, townhouses, etc)


Note; channel overlap may also be your problem. For 2.4ghz you want to 
use either 1, 6 or 11. If something else is on those channels ( or 
between them ) then performance may be impacted. If possible use 5ghz, 
again running on a free channel


If youre happy with the browsing speeds etc, and the other problems you 
mentioned you can live with, just disable the wifi and attach a stand 
alone wifi AP (tp-link again being a good option, whch you can flash 
with opewrt or other if you like)


You may also be able to get the netgear in to bridge mode, and then use 
your own firewall device (potentially a bsd)

Its possible that the steps are similar to the Netgear CG3000's which 
are a similar device - steps are at 
https://pfstore.com.au/blogs/guides/pfsense-on-optus-cable




Dean



On 25/1/19 12:06 pm, Andrew Reilly wrote:
> Hi Dean,
>
> Yes, it's a Netgear. ?Telstra call it something like "Gateway Max". 
> ?Looks a lot like this one:
> https://www.netgear.com/service-providers/products/cable/gateways/C6300BD-Telstra.aspx 
>
>
> Performance usually seems pretty decent. ?Certainly for web browsing 
> and what-not I've not experienced much in the way of issues.
>
> "top" on the file server says that afpd is using about 1% of CPU, so 
> that probably isn't the bottleneck...
> systat -vmstat says that the ZFS drives are doing about 70tps, 
> averaging about 2-3 MB/s, and are 25-30% busy. ?So unless they're 
> doing lots of pointless seeking, I don't think they're the bottleneck 
> either. ?I'm inclined to blame the WiFi protocols, perhaps exacerbated 
> by afpd.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew Reilly
> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au <mailto:areilly at bigpond.net.au>
> M: +61-409-824-272
>
>
>
>> On 25 Jan 2019, at 11:47, Dean Hamstead <dean at fragfest.com.au 
>> <mailto:dean at fragfest.com.au>> wrote:
>>
>> ok youre on Telstra cable. Thats good actually.
>>
>> I assume that youre using the all in one cable modem + wifi ? Is it a 
>> netgear?
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> On 25/1/19 10:59 am, Andrew Reilly wrote:
>>> Thanks for the comments. ?Just to clarify, I'm not yet on the NBN. 
>>> ?If they squeak my installation in before the 2020 line-in-the-sand 
>>> I guess I'll be happy. ?I'm in the Telstra/Foxtel HFC footprint, and 
>>> so will probably be the last connected. ?I'll lose a bit of download 
>>> speed (Bigpond HFC gets up to 120Mb/s on a good day) but I'm really 
>>> looking forward to the up-tick in upload speed and reduced latency. 
>>> ?We'll see. ?I'm afraid that the fact that NBN has been "imminent" 
>>> for the last five years or so has rather held up enthusiasm for 
>>> experimenting with other configurations. ?I came close to running 
>>> the modem in bridge mode and using a third-party WiFi router when I 
>>> discovered the IPSec issue, but haven't, yet. ?So IPv6 is something 
>>> else to look forward to? ?IPv4-only on Bigpond cable.
>>>
>>> An experiment I could reasonably try, if it's still going this 
>>> evening, would be getting a USB-C ethernet adaptor for the laptop 
>>> and plugging it into the switch.
>>>
>>> As an aside, that was some fairly spectacular breakage of my 
>>> original message by the BUGS mail forwarder! ?I'm sorry for whatever 
>>> it was that I did to upset it. ?Looks as though it re-assembled 
>>> Apple's soft-wrap text into long lines, and then broke those at 
>>> non-word boundaries with explanation marks. ?I've not seen that 
>>> happen before.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Andrew Reilly
>>> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au <mailto:areilly at bigpond.net.au>
>>> M: +61-409-824-272
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 25 Jan 2019, at 10:31, Dean Hamstead <dean at fragfest.com.au 
>>>> <mailto:dean at fragfest.com.au>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Friends dont let friends run the ISP modem :)
>>>>
>>>> Also, realistically WiFi will run at about 50% of its theoretical 
>>>> max speed.
>>>>
>>>> Telstra's modems are notoriously terrible (as are most big name 
>>>> ISP's who customize the firmware), but on the plus side Telstra is 
>>>> now perhaps the only ISP that does IPv6 on NBN and ADSL products 
>>>> (Internode doesnt do it on products they are selling through AAPT 
>>>> wholesale, like NBN-HFC and NBN-FTTC)
>>>>
>>>> If you don't use a phone service which Telstra insists on providing 
>>>> via their crappy modem - you can just replace it with something 
>>>> like a cheap TP-Link. Which you can likely reload with OpenWRT or 
>>>> similar. If youre using fttn then youll need to get a vdsl modem 
>>>> (even just a 1 port dm200 from netgear, in bridge mode).
>>>>
>>>> Or you could run a pfsense/opnsense appliance, or roll your own via 
>>>> and bsd you like. For
>>>>
>>>> I've not yet had the chance to get Telstra IPv6 running on a 
>>>> non-Telstra device though. Assuming they are just using DHCPv6 
>>>> (they just use DHCP for ipv4) then it should just be a matter of 
>>>> providing settings they will accept.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>>> On 25/1/19 10:18 am, Harry Woodward-Clarke wrote:
>>>>> yeah - I would be suspicious of the Telstra device. I should have 
>>>>> thought at least 20MB/s, and up to about 30MB/s without too much 
>>>>> effort.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, to get the super-duper speeds, both the Tx and Rx need 
>>>>> to use multiple antennas (MIMO) - hence why some of the 
>>>>> fancy-schmancy Access Points have all those antennas pointing 
>>>>> every which way :)
>>>>>
>>>>> The may be some tweaks you can do in the T-device (channel width, 
>>>>> Tx power) but I suspect you are stuck unless you put a "real" 
>>>>> Wireless Access Point in the mix.
>>>>>
>>>>> .h
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:49, Andrew Reilly 
>>>>> <areilly at bigpond.net.au <mailto:areilly at bigpond.net.au>> wrote:
>>>>> Here's a group that just might have a few clues for me. ?Any 
>>>>> suggestions gratefully accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I run a FreeBSD system at home as a file server. ?Have done since 
>>>>> maybe '92 or so, but of course all of the moving parts and bits 
>>>>> have changed over time. ?Today's version has a new-ish version-1 
>>>>> Ryzen motherboard with 32G RAM (which I've managed to stop 
>>>>> spontaneously freezing a couple of times a week, over the break, 
>>>>> by locking _all_ P-states off except 0, in BIOS). ?That is host to 
>>>>> an NVME SSD that holds root, /usr, /var, etc, and four 4T Hitachi 
>>>>> drives in RaidZ form for user data. ?There are two quota-limited 
>>>>> ZFS volumes on there that I use to TimeMachine backup the house's 
>>>>> two macOS systems. ?Main network file service to the macs is over 
>>>>> the latest Samba, with all of the Unix and Mac-friendly tweaks 
>>>>> enabled, and that doesn't seem to work too badly. ?Not totally 
>>>>> fluid (SMB restrictions on file name characters bight every so 
>>>>> often, as do slightly weird file permissions) but tolerable, and 
>>>>> seemingly the only option really supported by macOS these days. 
>>>>> ?TimeMachine still!
>> !
>>> ?run!
>>>>> ?s over AFP, so NetAtalk is on there too. ?That box is connected 
>>>>> to a switch over gigabit ethernet, as is my mac desktop and a 
>>>>> Telstra Netcomm cable-modem-cum-wifi-router. ?Hanging off the 5GHz 
>>>>> Wifi band at the moment is a brand new MacBook Air, a replacement 
>>>>> for my wife's dying old MacBook. ?It's on it's first boot, and is 
>>>>> attempting to restore from the last backup of the MacBook, some 
>>>>> 280G. ?It claims that it will take another 36 hours, at the 
>>>>> current average pace of 2MB/s. ?That seems low to me, by perhaps 
>>>>> as much as a factor of 60. ?I've read that 5GHz WiFi is supposed 
>>>>> to manage 1300 Mb/s under good conditions, and in this case the 
>>>>> new laptop is about eight feet from the WiFi router, in line of 
>>>>> sight. ?Doesn't get much better than that. ?Not that there's much 
>>>>> I can do about it now, but does anyone have any thoughts about why 
>>>>> the restore performance should be so awful? ?Could it be 
>>>>> bottlenecking on the laptop's APFS write speed? ?Something 
>>>>> pessimal about NetAtalk ove!
>> r !
>>> ?WiF!
>>>>> ?i? ?A rubbish network stack in the Telstra modem? ?(Heaven knows 
>>>>> the user-interface and the firewall are rubbish. ?The device drops 
>>>>> all IPSec packets silently on the ground.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Reilly
>>>>> E: areilly at bigpond.net.au <mailto:areilly at bigpond.net.au>
>>>>> M: +61-409-824-272
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BUGS mailing list
>>>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org <mailto:BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org>
>>>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry Woodward-Clarke
>>>>> imago Dei, in quolibet homine, inveniatur
>>>>> Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly with Your God - Micah 6v8
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BUGS mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org
>>>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BUGS mailing list
>>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org <mailto:BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org>
>>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BUGS mailing list
>>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org <mailto:BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org>
>>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BUGS mailing list
>> BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org <mailto:BUGS at bugs.au.freebsd.org>
>> https://www.rulingia.com/mailman/listinfo/bugs
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>
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From matti.k at bigpond.net.au  Sat Jan 26 17:45:38 2019
From: matti.k at bigpond.net.au (matti k)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:45:38 +1100
Subject: [BUGS] Net network performance question?
In-Reply-To: <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
References: <2C6A6F9E-0E92-407A-8880-DE1505B5B240@bigpond.net.au>
 <CAPyqbUHRJMPCgn1c++L3BPGi9WDc-QMzkuuVhWWr8ig8=wacow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54d54162-f39d-87bd-ad00-c814834df683@fragfest.com.au>
 <999A52A7-93B2-4A9F-AD79-06A312ACD8E1@bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20190126174538.52a889ab@bigpond.net.au>

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 10:59:17 +1100
Andrew Reilly <areilly at bigpond.net.au> wrote:

> Thanks for the comments.  Just to clarify, I'm not yet on the NBN.
> If they squeak my installation in before the 2020 line-in-the-sand I
> guess I'll be happy.  I'm in the Telstra/Foxtel HFC footprint, and so
> will probably be the last connected.  I'll lose a bit of download
> speed (Bigpond HFC gets up to 120Mb/s on a good day) but I'm really
> looking forward to the up-tick in upload speed and reduced latency.
> We'll see.

Also on Telstra HFC here.

Personally I am also dreading the nbn and am in a similar waiting list
as yourself ... the longer the better as far as I am concerned! 

> I came close to running the
> modem in bridge mode and using a third-party WiFi router when I
> discovered the IPSec issue, but haven't, yet.  So IPv6 is something
> else to look forward to?  IPv4-only on Bigpond cable.
> 

Last I checked Telstra are testing IPv6 on nbn but as you said it is
not available for cable. I do run the Telstra router in bridge mode
with a FreeBSD gateway box and getting advertised speeds, have left
wifi on the router enabled but switched it off using the physical
button the the router which I think still allows me access to the
Telstra AIR stuff.

Cheers,
Matti